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As I mentioned in these posts, Low back pain is a popular topic because so many folks, of all ages, suffer from it.
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My good friend and colleague, Mark Young, has provided us some incredible videos about the anatomy of the spine and why specific exercises like Crunches, Squats and Russian Twists may be more risky than others.
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The value of the information Mark’s videos provide us is priceless! – And, you get them here absolutely FREE!
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NOTE – the views displayed in the videos below do not necessarily coincide with the Performance U approach to Strength & Conditioning.
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I always pride myself on being a neutral, non-biased educator. So, in my next post, I will talk about the negative side of looking at the spine in the manner in which Mark provided above. You absolutely don’t want to miss it. So, stay tuned!
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This guy is just a prick who doesn’t like lifting man-heavy weights!
Many studies have shown squats to be great for knee and low-back health.
I have been squatting heavy for 20 years and my low back feels great. In fact, I’m the only one in my family who squats heavy and is pain-free.
Do us dedicated lifters a favour and remove this idiot off the site. The guy’s a loser!
Great videos and it all makes sense. Although, there are 2 sides to every story with pros and cons, I’m looking forward to hear what you have to say about it Nick
I have been squatting as heavy as I can for years( I,m 63) i.m also a professional golfer, so I’m quite aware of excessive rotational forces. Heavy squats, deadlifts and KB swings have kept my back in great shape, just the opposite of this presentation. Just sayin.
Rick,
Thanks for your comments!
This is why I wrote that disclaimer at the bottom of the post. There are two sides to this argument. I’m more on your side of the fence when it comes to this stuff.
So, keep your eyes out later this week for Part 2.
Coach N
Thanks for your comments!
First off, whether you agree with him or not – Mark is a very bright and respectable coach.
That said, I’m actually on your side of this issue. That’s why I posted the disclaimer at the end of the post.
Check back later in the week for the other side of this story.
Best regards!
Coach N
Coach N
I have been training for with weights for 33 years and have been a strength/performance/fitness coach for over 20 years. I have worked with people for well over 23,000 hours and never in that time have I had an individual with a traumatic back injury due to squatting and axial loading. There are so many causative factors for back issues we could be here all day. The spine also does not function on its own. While I would agree that loaded spinal flexion has the potential for problems and excessive lumbar rotation is not healthy. I would disagree with his reasoning. I have worked with powerlifters some who have attained 1000lb squats and 850lb deadlifts no back problems at this point. I have a wide range of clientele, everybody squats and deadlifts no matter what the age. I keep these movements in ranges that they can perform correctly and slowly build range of motion and strength while maintaining proper form.
I also find it funny how coaches that do not appear to have trained or train at all seem to be against the big lifts.
There are studies that support that bilateral squatting is superior for performance than unilateral movements. Loren Chu being one of the scientists who have found this to be true. While I do believe that single leg motions have their place, especially for range of motion/mobility and to some extent strength development. They do not produce the results that a bilateral squat/deadlift will.
I do realize he made a reference to non athletic individuals and the risk/reward of having that population squatting is not worth it. I would completely disagree as my years of experience do not support his stance. If you examine Olympic Lifters who absorb a tremendous amount of force/transfer a tremendous amount of force and in general exhibit no greater amount of problems than the general public his view does not fit.
I would say that the general population of lifters have a great deal of imbalances, poor form of execution and try to load too excessively and that is where the problem is.
Just some of my random thoughts on subject.
Satpal some advise: research who Stuart McGill is before you make comments like that.
Hi there,
I just want to add that he’s using the spine of a quadruped mammal (pig) for demonstration while humans are also mammals we are bipedal by nature.
So one has to take the anatomical differences into account when demonstrating the effects of force on a body because the spines may look similar but are built for a different set of force vectors.
About the diagnosis of nucleus displacement into the vertebral body: if you take x-rays form at last 2 different planes diagnosis will be easier (you can see this pathologic processes on the lateral x-ray images pretty good. For diagnostic purposes it would be even better to get a MRI if this pathology is suspected. )
Yeah…that Mark Young clown is a loser. I hear he paints his nails pink too.
Looking forward to you next post Nick! As always, we continue to learn from one another without condemnation.
I am very familiar with Stuart McGill’s books and his studies.
The best thing I have done to keep my back in mint condition is to keep my pelvis aligned by periodicaly doing very simple muscle-energy techniques. Read “The Malalignment Syndrome”.
This has allowed me to squat heavier, deeper, and without soreness the following days.
This book is far better than McGill’s because he doesn’t address this significant issue.
Furthermore, look at lifters at Westside Barbell Club, the strongest powerlifters in the world. They regularly squat with over 700 pounds and do not have back pain. It’s all down to technique and making sure the hamstrings are fully activated. Honestly, this makes ALL the difference. After all, squats are nature’s compound exercise, not an ‘isolated’ quad exercise like some people make it out to be.
I’m 60 and have been squatting for 50 years. I don’t have back problems. My brother, sister, mother all had lower back operations with rods and screws inserted. So I’m genetically predisposed to back problems. They never exercised or did squats.
Nick,
I have to wonder if, given the demands encountered in some extreme ranges of motion if certain types of very controlled training in areas currently discarded might be worthwhile. For example, people say never to do semi-stiff legged deadlifts with a rounded spine or never do back extensions where you aren’t hinging at the hip. But wouldn’t very careful progression on some rounded back movements in controlled volumes, without allowing sets to continue past a point where fatigue may cause significant compromises, actually help protect the spine should we suddenly encounter a somewhat extreme and unintended position, whether in sport or in everyday life?
I also recall hearing Gary Gray (and I may be mistaken in my interpretation of what I heard, since Gary Gray is humble, brilliant, and so far beyond my plane that we’re not even in the same galaxy when it comes to knowledge of the body)say something along the lines of some of McGill’s research on the spine having a finite number of flexion and bending cycles may not be 100-percent applicable in the sense that the dynamics change when the sacrum is fixed and the spine is repeatedly flexed versus the sacrum being free to move. He seemed to indicate that most of what he believes would line up with Doctor McGill, and that he was merely pointing out that running tests with a fixed sacrum changes the game, so to speak.
Hi Nick, despite the negative feedback, love the videos thanks for posting them. Its now shines a lot of light on what the guys like Mike Boyle are doing with a lot of unilateral leg work and front squats as opposed to back squats. From what I have seen its not usual for someone that trains their legs often to lift a lot more than half their bilateral squat load doing a single legged squat.
Thanks again.
Great comments!
I think you will like what I have to say in the next post about studying Pig spines.
It will be posted this week. So, check back soon!
Coach N
Of course bro! We always keep things respectful and classy!.. The way it should be!
Coach N
JIm,
Thanks for your comments!
I think you’ll like my comments in opposition to Mark’s videos in the next post.
Stay tuned!
Coach N
Jack,
Great comments!
I do use some “rounded” back movements for specific, uninjured clients. Why? – because back flexion is normal to daily life and sport.
That said, I keep the loads around 10% of BW or less when allowing my clients to round.
I never do high load lifts w/o maintaining a lordodic curve throughout the movement.
Stay tuned for the next post later this week!
Coach N
Excited to see the rest! We must watch out for Canadians though (hehehe). In all seriousness, Mark has great stuff.
I will refrain from a tyrant about pain physiology until I read the follow up post.
Rock on
Mike T Nelson PhD(c)
I am very familiar with Stuart McGill’s books and his studies.
The best thing I have done to keep my back in mint condition is to keep my pelvis aligned by periodicaly doing very simple muscle-energy techniques. Read “The Malalignment Syndrome”.
This has allowed me to squat heavier, deeper, and without soreness the following days.
This book is far better than McGill’s because he doesn’t address this significant issue.
I will have to get that book. Thanks.
The “I’ve done it and haven’t been hurt” rationale really isn’t a very good one is it? Really – most people who drive drunk don’t hurt anybody – does that mean it’s a good idea?
Satpal: In regards to Westside Barbell not having herniations…WRONG! Louie Simmons has had numerous back surgeries for disc herniation. No need to bash Mark Young. As with everything there are exceptions to the rule. I know people who have smoked well into their 90’s with no occurence of cancer. Does that mean smoking isn’t dangerous? same with squatting.
Sounds like something we’ve been hearing for some time. I’d be interested to see how the human spine reacts to these same forces in vitro. I’m not a “pigologist,” but I would imagine the stresses imposed on a quadrupedal animal is much different than an upright human spine??? Looking forward to Nick’s response.
I have only been training athletes for about 4,347 hours, so I’m not quite as experienced as some in the field, but to restrict the body in any normal plane of movement is a really backward way of thinking about training. It’s crucial to remember that not everything works for everybody, and a blanket theory is never the way to go.