Clarifying Crunches
. I have to give credit to my good friend, Coach Mike Boyle for helping me realize that the messages in my posts may be getting misconstrued. Below is a conversation exchange Coach Boyle and I had a few days ago on his Strength Coach Blog from his post entitled “No More Crunches“. . mboyle1959 Says: March 3, 2010 at 6:11 am Nick- maybe I should have said “he likes to play Devil’s Advocate”. I know how you train people but, I think your posts sometimes give people the wrong impression of your views. This post was a case in point. The writer used your point to take a stance opposite one your primariliy ageree with. Thanks for taking the time to respond. . Nick Tumminello Says: March 3, 2010 at 5:38 amJust to clarify a few things:
1. I don’t disagree just for the sake of argument. Put simply, I never have and never will like blanket statements. For instances: “crunches are bad”. No, too many crunches can be bad for some. I would say any exercise is bad, if it’s done to the extent and large amount of volume crunches are often performed. Squat are great, but 100 squats done everyday may be tough on your knees?
REMEMBER – Flexion is not the problem – High repetition flexion is the problem!
2. I do NOT use trunk flexion all that often in my training. But, not because I’m afraid crunches will put my clients on the surgery table.
I don’t use crunches often because much of my training times is dedicated to reversing the sitting position (aka slouchy posture). Crunches replicate this posture and therefore I feel my clients valuable training time is better used not do anything like they already do 8+ hrs a day. This is why I do agree with Coach Boyle when he tells young trainers to cut out crunches and has done it himself.
But, that doesn’t mean we should look down upon a smart and experienced coach if he or she decides to use crunches for a specific athlete.
3. I have a great deal of respect for Dr. McGill and in no way am I attempting to discredit him. I do however feel there are a few things in his book that have no bearing on human movement for the reasons I wrote in that blog post. That said, MOST of what DR. McGill talks about, I believe in 100% and use everyday.
In short, do I think anyone NEEDs to do crunches? – Absolutely NOT! But, then again, I don’t think there is any one exercise that has magical powers that everyone MUST do. A squat, deadlift, Push Up, etc: are all just exercises.
Best regards!
Coach N
.
It’s always easy to say this or that expert hates/loves this or that exercise; in practice, however, many of them turn out to have a somewhat more tempered approach.
Even Stuart McGill–whose work most people cite when they recommend avoiding spinal flexion– doesn’t take an absolute approach to crunches; he’s all about what’s important for the individual. Some athletes, he concedes, need to train spinal flexion, and in those cases he’s all for it.
Everyday folks and most athletes are better off with more functional movements, as both Boyle and NT suggest.
Nick, if Dr. McGill did his research on human rather than pig spines, do you think the results would have been different? I think not. I once had a neurosurgeon tell me that the reason there is so much chronic back pain is that our ancestors learned how to walk on their hind legs. He said that our spine was designed for a quadruped. I can’t think of any reason to do crunches.
Pat
Coach N, I always respect your open mindedness when it come to today’s hot topics in the strength/fitness industry. What it all seems to boil down to is , what’s in the best interest of the client/athlete. Most people would be better off following Dr. McGills stabilization protocol but there will always be a few that could benefit from spinal flexion based core exercises such as physique competitors. Thanks for your insight.
Coach Tumminello,
How does your girlfriend approach the issue of lumbar flexion given that aesthetics is definitely one of the primary goals of her training? I know that some people contend that some measure of dynamic flexion work is needed (above and beyond simply being very lean and doing plent of stability work).
Does she do much if any flexion work (crunch or reverse crunch-type movements), or has she found that these weren’t needed at all? Just curious what the combined experience between you and her and the physique competitors you’ve worked with has to say on this matter.
Another thing I often wonder is that it’s often said that even if you don’t seek to train lumbar flexion in training, you needed to have optimal range of motion at all segments in order for proper proprioception and overall function. Is flexion in some capacity from time to time needed to maintain that ROM, or do things like keeping the t-spine and hips optimally mobile along with what is generally regarded as solid training tend to prevent any loss of this spinal motion without actually going into those ranges much?
Hopefully I haven’t articulated this too poorly.
Guys
As s beginning trainer I’m finding this discussion tremendously beneficial. It seems that we are really getting to the root of what is a good philosophy of training. I think you’re ‘spot on’ Nick and will try to carry your views into the future. They are pretty much universal principles and apply in most fields of endeavor.
Thank you
Colin
You are very welcome Colin!
Many thanks for your positive comments!
Coach N
As a beginning trainer, what would be some alternatives to crunches? Reverse crunches, leg lifts?
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